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	Comments on: The world vs NetBEUI	</title>
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	<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/</link>
	<description>Fun with Virtualization</description>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363789</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Mar 2024 09:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-363789</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363557&quot;&gt;Chris M.&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;ve done the update, let me know if it is still broken?  Or what is the destination for the Zone Multicast so I can see if there is a pattern that encapsulates it, or worst cast just plain add it in.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363557">Chris M.</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done the update, let me know if it is still broken?  Or what is the destination for the Zone Multicast so I can see if there is a pattern that encapsulates it, or worst cast just plain add it in.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363586</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Mar 2024 21:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-363586</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363557&quot;&gt;Chris M.&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah good point!  I&#039;ll have to do an update!  I only really tested it talking to my NT Macintosh File/Print!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363557">Chris M.</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah good point!  I&#8217;ll have to do an update!  I only really tested it talking to my NT Macintosh File/Print!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris M.		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-363557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Mar 2024 20:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-363557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A PR was merged to fix this problem, so the next release should be fixed.

This also helped me discover a bug in Cockatrice III and likely Basilisk II if the code is the same. Turns out that it ignores packets addressed to the AppleTalk &quot;Zone Multicast&quot; address range between 09:00:07:00:00:00 to 09:00:07:00:00:FC. One wouldn&#039;t have a problem with this on a small routerless network, but routers like my Shiva Fastpath do calculate and send out NBP requests using this zone broadcast range.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A PR was merged to fix this problem, so the next release should be fixed.</p>
<p>This also helped me discover a bug in Cockatrice III and likely Basilisk II if the code is the same. Turns out that it ignores packets addressed to the AppleTalk &#8220;Zone Multicast&#8221; address range between 09:00:07:00:00:00 to 09:00:07:00:00:FC. One wouldn&#8217;t have a problem with this on a small routerless network, but routers like my Shiva Fastpath do calculate and send out NBP requests using this zone broadcast range.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris M.		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362789</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 19:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-362789</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362741&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

Looked at the dumps, and I see nothing wrong. Limiting the emulator&#039;s packet capture to just FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF and the target&#039;s MAC will certainly break things... like all multicast traffic. This would break AppleTalk as well since EtherTalk uses specific multicast addresses too.

Looks like someone needs to submit a PR to allow all multicast traffic into the emulated NIC. Just check for LSB=1 in the first octet of the destination MAC.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362741">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>Looked at the dumps, and I see nothing wrong. Limiting the emulator&#8217;s packet capture to just FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF and the target&#8217;s MAC will certainly break things&#8230; like all multicast traffic. This would break AppleTalk as well since EtherTalk uses specific multicast addresses too.</p>
<p>Looks like someone needs to submit a PR to allow all multicast traffic into the emulated NIC. Just check for LSB=1 in the first octet of the destination MAC.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362741</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 14:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-362741</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977&quot;&gt;Chris M.&lt;/a&gt;.

86box sets a capture for the direct mac &amp; all one&#039;s but other protocols broadcast on different addresses, thats why they can scream but not see eachother.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977">Chris M.</a>.</p>
<p>86box sets a capture for the direct mac &#038; all one&#8217;s but other protocols broadcast on different addresses, thats why they can scream but not see eachother.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362655</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 09:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977&quot;&gt;Chris M.&lt;/a&gt;.

I sent you an email so hopefull you have the capture now?

I don&#039;t get it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977">Chris M.</a>.</p>
<p>I sent you an email so hopefull you have the capture now?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stephen Ferrell		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362011</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Ferrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2024 00:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-362011</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Since you&#039;ve already enabled TCP/IP on both systems, have you tried enabling NetBeui over TCP/IP on the Windows system?  Then you &quot;should&quot; be able to connect to the OS/2 system using something like the following from the command prompt:  net use X: \\ip_address_of_OS2-box\share_name

I know that&#039;s not an ideal solution but maybe that way you can at least share drives?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you&#8217;ve already enabled TCP/IP on both systems, have you tried enabling NetBeui over TCP/IP on the Windows system?  Then you &#8220;should&#8221; be able to connect to the OS/2 system using something like the following from the command prompt:  net use X: \\ip_address_of_OS2-box\share_name</p>
<p>I know that&#8217;s not an ideal solution but maybe that way you can at least share drives?</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-362007</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2024 00:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-362007</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977&quot;&gt;Chris M.&lt;/a&gt;.

I have found that fake network interfaces like the msloopback avoid a lot of those hairpin issues.  I did get the SNA working in this manner.

I&#039;ll have to do the captures tomorrow, as I&#039;m beat for the moment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977">Chris M.</a>.</p>
<p>I have found that fake network interfaces like the msloopback avoid a lot of those hairpin issues.  I did get the SNA working in this manner.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to do the captures tomorrow, as I&#8217;m beat for the moment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris M.		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361977</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2024 23:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-361977</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361760&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

Put up the complete dump of one of the NetBIOS packets from each machine. I&#039;m curious as to what the Ethernet frames look like. They should be 802.2 with DSAP/SSAP type 0xf0. If one of the machines is outputting Ethernet_II for some reason (likely the OS/2 one), it could be one reason for the non-communication.

Also, how are your VMs networked? If they are both running on the same host and both are injecting packets pcap style to the same NIC, they won&#039;t be able to &quot;see&quot; each other. The packets only go out to your switch. You need something called &quot;hairpin routing&quot; for it to work (basically the switch reflects the pcap injected packets back to your NIC).

Oh, there is also this KB that may be relevant: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/a-virtual-machine-that-is-configured-to-use-the-dlc-protocol-does-not-connect-to-an-sna-host-on-hyper-v-server-2012-or-hyper-v-server-2012-r2-eef382a9-65f2-f22f-ecd2-dc88ac6c9f2c]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361760">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>Put up the complete dump of one of the NetBIOS packets from each machine. I&#8217;m curious as to what the Ethernet frames look like. They should be 802.2 with DSAP/SSAP type 0xf0. If one of the machines is outputting Ethernet_II for some reason (likely the OS/2 one), it could be one reason for the non-communication.</p>
<p>Also, how are your VMs networked? If they are both running on the same host and both are injecting packets pcap style to the same NIC, they won&#8217;t be able to &#8220;see&#8221; each other. The packets only go out to your switch. You need something called &#8220;hairpin routing&#8221; for it to work (basically the switch reflects the pcap injected packets back to your NIC).</p>
<p>Oh, there is also this KB that may be relevant: <a href="https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/a-virtual-machine-that-is-configured-to-use-the-dlc-protocol-does-not-connect-to-an-sna-host-on-hyper-v-server-2012-or-hyper-v-server-2012-r2-eef382a9-65f2-f22f-ecd2-dc88ac6c9f2c" rel="nofollow ugc">https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/a-virtual-machine-that-is-configured-to-use-the-dlc-protocol-does-not-connect-to-an-sna-host-on-hyper-v-server-2012-or-hyper-v-server-2012-r2-eef382a9-65f2-f22f-ecd2-dc88ac6c9f2c</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361760</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2024 07:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=14103#comment-361760</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361721&quot;&gt;Chris M.&lt;/a&gt;.

It’s more like people used the IBM types to work over existing networks.

It’s odd as my SNA stuff was with the same setup.

Unless there is something else going on ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/the-world-vs-netbeui/comment-page-1/#comment-361721">Chris M.</a>.</p>
<p>It’s more like people used the IBM types to work over existing networks.</p>
<p>It’s odd as my SNA stuff was with the same setup.</p>
<p>Unless there is something else going on ?</p>
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