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	Comments on: The arrogance of Silicon Valley is astounding: or the death of 6to4	</title>
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	<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/</link>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-297269</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2022 02:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-297269</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-297160&quot;&gt;Nathan Anderson&lt;/a&gt;.

My point being is that I shouldn&#039;t have to use a 3rd party broker I should be free to form peer to peer v6 over the v4 network at will without any strangle point.

The conspiracy is simple enough, people don&#039;t want a ubiquitous network experience over the legacy v4 network. 6to4 solved the issue of what happens when your ISP doesn&#039;t care, like they don&#039;t care in Hong Kong.

It speaks to the arrogance of SV with no regard to the rest of the world, and how they always want to tunnel everyone&#039;s traffic through their site to then deem that Im not worthy and cut me off.  6to4 bypassed this nonsense and allowed anyone with access to a v4 address to supersede it all.

It&#039;s as embarrassing as Linux groups on FaceBook.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-297160">Nathan Anderson</a>.</p>
<p>My point being is that I shouldn&#8217;t have to use a 3rd party broker I should be free to form peer to peer v6 over the v4 network at will without any strangle point.</p>
<p>The conspiracy is simple enough, people don&#8217;t want a ubiquitous network experience over the legacy v4 network. 6to4 solved the issue of what happens when your ISP doesn&#8217;t care, like they don&#8217;t care in Hong Kong.</p>
<p>It speaks to the arrogance of SV with no regard to the rest of the world, and how they always want to tunnel everyone&#8217;s traffic through their site to then deem that Im not worthy and cut me off.  6to4 bypassed this nonsense and allowed anyone with access to a v4 address to supersede it all.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s as embarrassing as Linux groups on FaceBook.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nathan Anderson		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-297160</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2022 23:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-297160</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What others have said: HE has offered free v6 tunneling to the public and has for years.  Heck, if you have an allocation from your local RIR, they&#039;ll even let you talk BGP to them over the tunnel, too.  No charge.  Can also confirm first-hand that Google is v6-reachable over their network.  If your WR840N can&#039;t be a terminus for an HE tunnel, then see if it&#039;s possible to flash OpenWRT or similar on it.  If not, might I suggest getting a MikroTik router: you can replace your 802.11n single-band device with one of similar specs (RB951Ui) for around ~$50USD.

There is no SV conspiracy (at least against v6, anyway!; heh), 6to4 anycast was always going to be a short-term, stop-gap solution, and v6 isn&#039;t going anywhere.  There are many major networks that are v6-only, and use 464XLAT or similar to make the v4 internet accessible to their subscribers.  T-Mobile US comes to mind.  Yes, the rollout and transition has sucked (and continues to suck) and has been very long and drawn-out, but it was always going to suck and be very long and drawn-out...part of that is the fault of the standards bodies for not necessarily addressing all of the v6 analogues for established (and heavily-relied-upon) v4 components right out of the gate, and the other part is the fault of the equipment vendors for not implementing support for those components quickly once they finally did become available.  And part is just the existing inertia behind v4, and the fact that it takes a long and very conscious/concerted effort to make a change this dramatic to a critical piece of infrastructure that virtually everybody now relies on daily...a ship like the internet is now at a size and scale where it can&#039;t turn on a dime any longer.  Those days are long gone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What others have said: HE has offered free v6 tunneling to the public and has for years.  Heck, if you have an allocation from your local RIR, they&#8217;ll even let you talk BGP to them over the tunnel, too.  No charge.  Can also confirm first-hand that Google is v6-reachable over their network.  If your WR840N can&#8217;t be a terminus for an HE tunnel, then see if it&#8217;s possible to flash OpenWRT or similar on it.  If not, might I suggest getting a MikroTik router: you can replace your 802.11n single-band device with one of similar specs (RB951Ui) for around ~$50USD.</p>
<p>There is no SV conspiracy (at least against v6, anyway!; heh), 6to4 anycast was always going to be a short-term, stop-gap solution, and v6 isn&#8217;t going anywhere.  There are many major networks that are v6-only, and use 464XLAT or similar to make the v4 internet accessible to their subscribers.  T-Mobile US comes to mind.  Yes, the rollout and transition has sucked (and continues to suck) and has been very long and drawn-out, but it was always going to suck and be very long and drawn-out&#8230;part of that is the fault of the standards bodies for not necessarily addressing all of the v6 analogues for established (and heavily-relied-upon) v4 components right out of the gate, and the other part is the fault of the equipment vendors for not implementing support for those components quickly once they finally did become available.  And part is just the existing inertia behind v4, and the fact that it takes a long and very conscious/concerted effort to make a change this dramatic to a critical piece of infrastructure that virtually everybody now relies on daily&#8230;a ship like the internet is now at a size and scale where it can&#8217;t turn on a dime any longer.  Those days are long gone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: xstefen		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295932</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xstefen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2022 15:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295932</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[https://tunnelbroker.net/

Provided for free by Hurricane Electric which have a bit of a reputation for their IPv6 work]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://tunnelbroker.net/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://tunnelbroker.net/</a></p>
<p>Provided for free by Hurricane Electric which have a bit of a reputation for their IPv6 work</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick B.		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295404</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2022 22:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295404</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Are you able to use 6-in-4 tunnels? Hurricane Electric still operate a tunnel broker service and a free DNS service with accessible ipv4 and ipv6 services. I realise that you need a fairly stable ipv4 address for this to work though.
I miss SixXs with their AICCU that would tunnel ipv6 nicely over UDP.

Although they are progressively rolling out ipv6 in the UK I still haven&#039;t seen as much progress as I was hoping for (or the Cisco certifications would have me believe) from when I was self-training 11 years ago!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you able to use 6-in-4 tunnels? Hurricane Electric still operate a tunnel broker service and a free DNS service with accessible ipv4 and ipv6 services. I realise that you need a fairly stable ipv4 address for this to work though.<br />
I miss SixXs with their AICCU that would tunnel ipv6 nicely over UDP.</p>
<p>Although they are progressively rolling out ipv6 in the UK I still haven&#8217;t seen as much progress as I was hoping for (or the Cisco certifications would have me believe) from when I was self-training 11 years ago!</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295377</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2022 14:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295377</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295375&quot;&gt;bert&lt;/a&gt;.

And yet all the other older stuff works, just the stuff that gets me connected is depreciated... :&#124;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295375">bert</a>.</p>
<p>And yet all the other older stuff works, just the stuff that gets me connected is depreciated&#8230; 😐</p>
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		<title>
		By: bert		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295376</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2022 14:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295376</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295312&quot;&gt;Julius&lt;/a&gt;.

Microsoft&#039;s corporate network is IPv6 only, as is Facebook&#039;s - both have published papers about their migrations 10 or so years ago and the benefits it brought them. Most other companies that deploy it wouldn&#039;t write about it publicly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295312">Julius</a>.</p>
<p>Microsoft&#8217;s corporate network is IPv6 only, as is Facebook&#8217;s &#8211; both have published papers about their migrations 10 or so years ago and the benefits it brought them. Most other companies that deploy it wouldn&#8217;t write about it publicly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bert		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295375</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2022 14:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295375</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IPv6 is quite widely used in asia, there are a handful of countries (hong kong, laos, cambodia, bangladesh, pakistan, kyrgyzstan) with poor IPv6 deployment but the rest all have at least one national provider who offers native IPv6.
In India, all the major telcos offer IPv6 by default as do most of the fixed line providers and if you run a dual stack website the majority of visitors from India (nearly 80%) will be using IPv6 to access it, similarly in Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. In Singapore 3 of the main telcos offer IPv6 by default while the fourth will provide it if you explicitly request it.
China are planning on deprecating IPv4 by 2030, and the government is heavily pushing IPv6 there.

6to4 was found to be unreliable and slow, and with most countries having at least one provider offering native IPv6 there is no need to use 6to4. Plus users behind CGNAT cannot use 6to4, which is a LOT of users these days.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IPv6 is quite widely used in asia, there are a handful of countries (hong kong, laos, cambodia, bangladesh, pakistan, kyrgyzstan) with poor IPv6 deployment but the rest all have at least one national provider who offers native IPv6.<br />
In India, all the major telcos offer IPv6 by default as do most of the fixed line providers and if you run a dual stack website the majority of visitors from India (nearly 80%) will be using IPv6 to access it, similarly in Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. In Singapore 3 of the main telcos offer IPv6 by default while the fourth will provide it if you explicitly request it.<br />
China are planning on deprecating IPv4 by 2030, and the government is heavily pushing IPv6 there.</p>
<p>6to4 was found to be unreliable and slow, and with most countries having at least one provider offering native IPv6 there is no need to use 6to4. Plus users behind CGNAT cannot use 6to4, which is a LOT of users these days.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Malcolm		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295350</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295350</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not normally inclined to defend Silicon Valley, but is that the issue here? Surely Cisco&#039;s interest is to sell as much equipment as possible, and the way to do that is to churn protocols as much as possible.  It has no interest in people using IPv4 forever.

Unfortunately for me, I&#039;d like NT 4 clients to be able to talk to my server, which implies IPv4 reachability.  Having done that, the benefits of IPv6 are questionable, since it still needs a public IPv4 address, so the question for me is whether to manage one interface or two.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not normally inclined to defend Silicon Valley, but is that the issue here? Surely Cisco&#8217;s interest is to sell as much equipment as possible, and the way to do that is to churn protocols as much as possible.  It has no interest in people using IPv4 forever.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for me, I&#8217;d like NT 4 clients to be able to talk to my server, which implies IPv4 reachability.  Having done that, the benefits of IPv6 are questionable, since it still needs a public IPv4 address, so the question for me is whether to manage one interface or two.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295316</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295316</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295312&quot;&gt;Julius&lt;/a&gt;.

And yet it is not.

Too bad that 6to4 was ended preventing end users with access to a v4 from joining the network.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295312">Julius</a>.</p>
<p>And yet it is not.</p>
<p>Too bad that 6to4 was ended preventing end users with access to a v4 from joining the network.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Julius		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2022/01/11/the-arrogance-of-silicon-valley-is-astounding-or-the-death-of-6to4/comment-page-1/#comment-295312</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11699#comment-295312</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I thought IPv6 was relatively far in Asia due to a lack of IPv4 space there? I&#039;ve had IPv6 from my ISPs since 2003, https://ipv6.google.com/ loads for me. I think in Europe most home ISPs are offering it now. Possibly there will be IPv6-only sites on purpose in certain regions as it would keep traffic out from countries from which traffic is not expected anyhow.

Corporate networks are still a joke unfortunately. I haven&#039;t seen any with IPv6 yet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought IPv6 was relatively far in Asia due to a lack of IPv4 space there? I&#8217;ve had IPv6 from my ISPs since 2003, <a href="https://ipv6.google.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://ipv6.google.com/</a> loads for me. I think in Europe most home ISPs are offering it now. Possibly there will be IPv6-only sites on purpose in certain regions as it would keep traffic out from countries from which traffic is not expected anyhow.</p>
<p>Corporate networks are still a joke unfortunately. I haven&#8217;t seen any with IPv6 yet.</p>
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