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	Comments on: So what is the deal with A/UX anyways?	</title>
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	<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/</link>
	<description>Fun with Virtualization</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2023 19:53:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: M1t0s1s		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-321487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M1t0s1s]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2023 19:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-321487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283206&quot;&gt;Paul Campbell&lt;/a&gt;.

Who was Holly Knight in the passwd files?

holly:lLoTSq8z2Qmuw:8:8:Holly Knight:/usr/holly:/bin/csh
holly:.DhxL2fe01f5s:8:10:Holly Knight:/usr/holly:/bin/csh
holly:GSNDZRS19RO/g:8:1:Holly Knight:/usr/holly:/bin/csh]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283206">Paul Campbell</a>.</p>
<p>Who was Holly Knight in the passwd files?</p>
<p>holly:lLoTSq8z2Qmuw:8:8:Holly Knight:/usr/holly:/bin/csh<br />
holly:.DhxL2fe01f5s:8:10:Holly Knight:/usr/holly:/bin/csh<br />
holly:GSNDZRS19RO/g:8:1:Holly Knight:/usr/holly:/bin/csh</p>
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		<title>
		By: Leo R. Comerford		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-304619</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leo R. Comerford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2022 16:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-304619</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Taking into account the evidence from Chapter 9 of Stephen Levy&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.worldcat.org/title/insanely-great-the-life-and-times-of-macintosh-the-computer-that-changed-everything/oclc/44778944&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Insanely Great&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, &#039;Milwaukee&#039; was almost certainly the codename for what became the Macintosh II hardware, not for Big Mac. (According to Levy, the proto-Mac-II &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; also sometimes referred to as &#039;&lt;i&gt;Little&lt;/i&gt; Big Mac&#039;.) The Macintosh II project was quite independent from Big Mac: indeed its very existence was hidden from Jobs to prevent him from killing it. It certainly did end up taking ADB from Big Mac, though. Levy even gives an origin story for the &#039;Milwaukee&#039; code name: Mike Dhuey, the engineer who began the project, came from Milwaukee, and Jean-Louis Gassée noticed a picture of the city hanging in his cubicle. The &lt;a href=&quot;https://github.com/BobMorlock/AUX/blob/ac3d03a2a0c0924866ce265a7e128683bf91cd71/psn/Makefile&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;linked A/UX file&lt;/a&gt; does indeed describe A/UX as &quot;Milwaukee virtual Unix&quot;, but that&#039;s presumably because it&#039;s a port of the operating system to the Macintosh II hardware, ie. to Milwaukee.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking into account the evidence from Chapter 9 of Stephen Levy&#8217;s <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/insanely-great-the-life-and-times-of-macintosh-the-computer-that-changed-everything/oclc/44778944" rel="nofollow ugc"><i>Insanely Great</i></a>, &#8216;Milwaukee&#8217; was almost certainly the codename for what became the Macintosh II hardware, not for Big Mac. (According to Levy, the proto-Mac-II <i>was</i> also sometimes referred to as &#8216;<i>Little</i> Big Mac&#8217;.) The Macintosh II project was quite independent from Big Mac: indeed its very existence was hidden from Jobs to prevent him from killing it. It certainly did end up taking ADB from Big Mac, though. Levy even gives an origin story for the &#8216;Milwaukee&#8217; code name: Mike Dhuey, the engineer who began the project, came from Milwaukee, and Jean-Louis Gassée noticed a picture of the city hanging in his cubicle. The <a href="https://github.com/BobMorlock/AUX/blob/ac3d03a2a0c0924866ce265a7e128683bf91cd71/psn/Makefile" rel="nofollow ugc">linked A/UX file</a> does indeed describe A/UX as &#8220;Milwaukee virtual Unix&#8221;, but that&#8217;s presumably because it&#8217;s a port of the operating system to the Macintosh II hardware, ie. to Milwaukee.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Campbell		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283932</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2021 22:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283932</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283260&quot;&gt;Paul Campbell&lt;/a&gt;.

Also - 30 years later my fingers still sometimes type &quot;sync&quot; when I&#039;m idle and thinking :-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283260">Paul Campbell</a>.</p>
<p>Also &#8211; 30 years later my fingers still sometimes type &#8220;sync&#8221; when I&#8217;m idle and thinking 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Campbell		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283604</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2021 05:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283604</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283430&quot;&gt;pruten&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah, you can see the kernel event manager I&#039;d written there - it sort of mirrors the mac one, the Apple people took that and integrated it into their toolbox (I&#039;m not sure how much of that survived into 3.0) - essentially it&#039;s a queue of events (mostly mouse and keyboard), it also does software mouse movement (there&#039;s tight assembly code to hide the mouse, move it, unhide it)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283430">pruten</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah, you can see the kernel event manager I&#8217;d written there &#8211; it sort of mirrors the mac one, the Apple people took that and integrated it into their toolbox (I&#8217;m not sure how much of that survived into 3.0) &#8211; essentially it&#8217;s a queue of events (mostly mouse and keyboard), it also does software mouse movement (there&#8217;s tight assembly code to hide the mouse, move it, unhide it)</p>
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		<title>
		By: pruten		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283431</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pruten]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2021 20:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283431</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283205&quot;&gt;Paul Campbell&lt;/a&gt;.

Author of Shoebill here -- really cool to read about your work porting Sys V to the mac.  I had a lot of fun reverse engineering your code ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283205">Paul Campbell</a>.</p>
<p>Author of Shoebill here &#8212; really cool to read about your work porting Sys V to the mac.  I had a lot of fun reverse engineering your code 😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: pruten		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283430</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pruten]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283430</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[FWIW, A/UX 0.7 has a nascent toolbox environment.  You can launch the daemon manually with &quot;$/etc/tooldaemon &#038;&quot;, then play with the binaries in /usr/toolboxbin

E.g. https://imgur.com/a/GDc4e1S]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, A/UX 0.7 has a nascent toolbox environment.  You can launch the daemon manually with &#8220;$/etc/tooldaemon &amp;&#8221;, then play with the binaries in /usr/toolboxbin</p>
<p>E.g. <a href="https://imgur.com/a/GDc4e1S" rel="nofollow ugc">https://imgur.com/a/GDc4e1S</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Campbell		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283263</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2021 03:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283263</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283261&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah, prompts were a big deal - they still are (I&#039;m working on a highly OO/superscalar/speculative risc-V project, getting a prompt a couple of weeks ago on an AWS FPGA instance was a big deal!)

We used to quote 6 weeks for the above process for a system with a known MMU and the two drivers - fastest I ever did was 3 days for a system where we&#039;d already done all the bits before for other customers - marketing made me wait a couple of weeks before telling the customer. 

A/UX had a lot lot more work than a bog standard port, and it took a lot longer]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283261">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah, prompts were a big deal &#8211; they still are (I&#8217;m working on a highly OO/superscalar/speculative risc-V project, getting a prompt a couple of weeks ago on an AWS FPGA instance was a big deal!)</p>
<p>We used to quote 6 weeks for the above process for a system with a known MMU and the two drivers &#8211; fastest I ever did was 3 days for a system where we&#8217;d already done all the bits before for other customers &#8211; marketing made me wait a couple of weeks before telling the customer. </p>
<p>A/UX had a lot lot more work than a bog standard port, and it took a lot longer</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283261</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2021 03:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283261</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283260&quot;&gt;Paul Campbell&lt;/a&gt;.

sounds pretty cool!

Best I could do was polled MPU401... it&#039;s a lot harder when you dont know what you are doing and are guessing at how things work.

It must have been really rewarding to see that # prompt!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283260">Paul Campbell</a>.</p>
<p>sounds pretty cool!</p>
<p>Best I could do was polled MPU401&#8230; it&#8217;s a lot harder when you dont know what you are doing and are guessing at how things work.</p>
<p>It must have been really rewarding to see that # prompt!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Campbell		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283260</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2021 03:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283260</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283253&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

We used an 11/750 to do the initial bootstrap process when porting to new platforms, but always switched to building on the box as soon as it became stable, building that way was always much faster than downloading kernels over serial lines for testing. 

Porting sort of went this way:
- write a polled serial driver, and a polled disk driver
- cross build all the apps
- integrate the drivers into a standalone app that could download a boot file system
- set it downloading, go away for many hours
- write interrupt driven  disk/serial drivers, build a kernel
- start downloading and debugging the kernel
- get a prompt (big milestone!)
- as soon as it&#039;s stable move to development on the box]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283253">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>We used an 11/750 to do the initial bootstrap process when porting to new platforms, but always switched to building on the box as soon as it became stable, building that way was always much faster than downloading kernels over serial lines for testing. </p>
<p>Porting sort of went this way:<br />
&#8211; write a polled serial driver, and a polled disk driver<br />
&#8211; cross build all the apps<br />
&#8211; integrate the drivers into a standalone app that could download a boot file system<br />
&#8211; set it downloading, go away for many hours<br />
&#8211; write interrupt driven  disk/serial drivers, build a kernel<br />
&#8211; start downloading and debugging the kernel<br />
&#8211; get a prompt (big milestone!)<br />
&#8211; as soon as it&#8217;s stable move to development on the box</p>
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		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283253</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2021 01:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/?p=11346#comment-283253</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283206&quot;&gt;Paul Campbell&lt;/a&gt;.

Did you cross compile from something like a VAX?  I can&#039;t imagine using the target to do builds back then it&#039;d be so incredibly slow]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/09/19/so-what-is-the-deal-with-a-ux-anyways/comment-page-1/#comment-283206">Paul Campbell</a>.</p>
<p>Did you cross compile from something like a VAX?  I can&#8217;t imagine using the target to do builds back then it&#8217;d be so incredibly slow</p>
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