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	Comments on: 4.1c BSD	</title>
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	<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/</link>
	<description>Fun with Virtualization</description>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-336807</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-336807</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[4.1c.1 has kernel source under sys/ while 4.1c.2 under a/ for instance
with CSRG ISO #1 mounted on /a/1 you get:

$ cd /a/1
$ ls -dl 4.1c.1/a
ls: cannot access &#039;4.1c.1/a&#039;: No such file or directory
$ ls -ld 4.1c.1/sys
drwxrwxr-x 21 root root 4096 Aug 11  1992 4.1c.1/sys
$ ls -dl 4.1c.2/a
drwxrwxrwx 3 root root 2048 Feb 27  1993 4.1c.2/a


4.1c.1 has kernel source is more recent than 4.1c.2, for instance

$ head -n 1 4.1c.1/sys/sys/init_main.c 
/*	init_main.c	4.49	83/04/04	*/
$ head -n 1 4.1c.2/a/sys/sys/init_main.c 
/*	init_main.c	4.47	83/03/01	*/


User programs (&quot;userland&quot;) version are the other way around, for instance
4.1c.2 usr/bin/date.c is newer than 4.1c.1 bin/date.c

$ head -n 2 4.1c.1/bin/date.c &#124; tail -n +2
static char *sccsid = &quot;@(#)date.c	4.2 (Berkeley) 2/26/83&quot;;

$ head -n 2 4.1c.2/usr/src/bin/date.c &#124; tail -n +2
static char *sccsid = &quot;@(#)date.c	4.3 (Berkeley) 2/28/83&quot;;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4.1c.1 has kernel source under sys/ while 4.1c.2 under a/ for instance<br />
with CSRG ISO #1 mounted on /a/1 you get:</p>
<p>$ cd /a/1<br />
$ ls -dl 4.1c.1/a<br />
ls: cannot access &#8216;4.1c.1/a&#8217;: No such file or directory<br />
$ ls -ld 4.1c.1/sys<br />
drwxrwxr-x 21 root root 4096 Aug 11  1992 4.1c.1/sys<br />
$ ls -dl 4.1c.2/a<br />
drwxrwxrwx 3 root root 2048 Feb 27  1993 4.1c.2/a</p>
<p>4.1c.1 has kernel source is more recent than 4.1c.2, for instance</p>
<p>$ head -n 1 4.1c.1/sys/sys/init_main.c<br />
/*	init_main.c	4.49	83/04/04	*/<br />
$ head -n 1 4.1c.2/a/sys/sys/init_main.c<br />
/*	init_main.c	4.47	83/03/01	*/</p>
<p>User programs (&#8220;userland&#8221;) version are the other way around, for instance<br />
4.1c.2 usr/bin/date.c is newer than 4.1c.1 bin/date.c</p>
<p>$ head -n 2 4.1c.1/bin/date.c | tail -n +2<br />
static char *sccsid = &#8220;@(#)date.c	4.2 (Berkeley) 2/26/83&#8221;;</p>
<p>$ head -n 2 4.1c.2/usr/src/bin/date.c | tail -n +2<br />
static char *sccsid = &#8220;@(#)date.c	4.3 (Berkeley) 2/28/83&#8221;;</p>
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			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-333340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jul 2023 13:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-333340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-1083&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

The SCCS version control has the BBN TCP/IP.

I put a repo up with the SCCS from 4.1c.1

https://github.com/ambiamber/4.1c.1-sccs2git]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-1083">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>The SCCS version control has the BBN TCP/IP.</p>
<p>I put a repo up with the SCCS from 4.1c.1</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/ambiamber/4.1c.1-sccs2git" rel="nofollow ugc">https://github.com/ambiamber/4.1c.1-sccs2git</a></p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-332241</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2023 01:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-332241</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331591&quot;&gt;Ambie&lt;/a&gt;.

My list of artifacts and my opinion about them have changed a lot since my June 11, 2023 post here.  If you want to see them, you can go to the Wikipedia SunOS article and view the Talk page for that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331591">Ambie</a>.</p>
<p>My list of artifacts and my opinion about them have changed a lot since my June 11, 2023 post here.  If you want to see them, you can go to the Wikipedia SunOS article and view the Talk page for that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2023 22:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331676&quot;&gt;Ambie&lt;/a&gt;.

there was also something else going on with Lucas Film in early Unix.  Not sure what that was all about.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331676">Ambie</a>.</p>
<p>there was also something else going on with Lucas Film in early Unix.  Not sure what that was all about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331648&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

In the past I started to collect information about JHU/UNIX at BRL

https://gist.github.com/ambiamber/386f7caa72c5e3cf4e2ce2f5ccd281ce

The CSRG-DVD has the first source code artifacts from it that I&#039;ve seen.  Of note, they had very original ideas about how to build a UNIX distro.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331648">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>In the past I started to collect information about JHU/UNIX at BRL</p>
<p><a href="https://gist.github.com/ambiamber/386f7caa72c5e3cf4e2ce2f5ccd281ce" rel="nofollow ugc">https://gist.github.com/ambiamber/386f7caa72c5e3cf4e2ce2f5ccd281ce</a></p>
<p>The CSRG-DVD has the first source code artifacts from it that I&#8217;ve seen.  Of note, they had very original ideas about how to build a UNIX distro.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2023 23:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331645&quot;&gt;Ambie&lt;/a&gt;.

the DVD was far more interesting than the CD-ROM set!  It helped me along with a bunch of Mach stuff as well!  The 386BSD discovery was interesting as well]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331645">Ambie</a>.</p>
<p>the DVD was far more interesting than the CD-ROM set!  It helped me along with a bunch of Mach stuff as well!  The 386BSD discovery was interesting as well</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331645</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2023 22:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331645</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331596&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

No, I bought the CD-ROM set some time ago. Thanks for the tip.

I uploaded my 4.1c.1 BSD disk image to the IA
https://archive.org/details/4.1c.-1.tar]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331596">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>No, I bought the CD-ROM set some time ago. Thanks for the tip.</p>
<p>I uploaded my 4.1c.1 BSD disk image to the IA<br />
<a href="https://archive.org/details/4.1c.-1.tar" rel="nofollow ugc">https://archive.org/details/4.1c.-1.tar</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331604</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2023 12:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331604</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331536&quot;&gt;neozeed&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m using this for updates:
https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/27090/a-sunos-kernel-configuration-file-in-the-csrg-isos

Seems that only the DECnet parts are of interest to me now and I don&#039;t know beans about DECnet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331536">neozeed</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m using this for updates:<br />
<a href="https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/27090/a-sunos-kernel-configuration-file-in-the-csrg-isos" rel="nofollow ugc">https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/27090/a-sunos-kernel-configuration-file-in-the-csrg-isos</a></p>
<p>Seems that only the DECnet parts are of interest to me now and I don&#8217;t know beans about DECnet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: neozeed		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331596</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neozeed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2023 10:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331596</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331591&quot;&gt;Ambie&lt;/a&gt;.

Have you seen the &lt;a href=&quot;https://archive.org/details/csrg-archive-historic-DVD&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;CSRG DVD&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s?

Unlike the CD-ROM set, they are full of interesting discovery from the infamous lawsuit.  There is all kinds of interesting stuff on there!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331591">Ambie</a>.</p>
<p>Have you seen the <a href="https://archive.org/details/csrg-archive-historic-DVD" rel="nofollow ugc">CSRG DVD</a>&#8216;s?</p>
<p>Unlike the CD-ROM set, they are full of interesting discovery from the infamous lawsuit.  There is all kinds of interesting stuff on there!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ambie		</title>
		<link>https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/08/29/4-1c-bsd/comment-page-1/#comment-331591</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ambie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2023 07:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://virtuallyfun.com/?p=1319#comment-331591</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Although I never found a working copy of SunOS in BSD, here are my findings:

1. Sun Microsystems supposedly had a VAX-11/750. Monet was a VAX-11/750. Was Monet really Sun&#039;s VAX?  A VAX-11/750 is sizeable chunk of change, especially one that you would only use for a short while to bootstrap SunOS on.

2. It&#039;s clear from the residue that BSD had Sun code. Some breadcrumbs are that SCCS like RCS operates on individual files, unlike Concurrent Version System (CVS), Subversion (SVN), git and so on which can operate on groups of files.  This makes it possible to expunge files and directories.  If there was a hypothetical /sys/sundev directory on a VAX at UCB it would be possible to &quot;rm -r&quot; it along with the SCCS version control for all the files in that directory.  Code like &quot;#if sun&quot; and &quot;#include &quot; in files that contain code that cannot be expunged will still be visible in the SCCS and backup tapes, etc.  The `files.sun` file is probably due to an oversight causing it to not be removed along with other files until it was discovered later.  The sun code was removed by the time of 4.2BSD release. Some traces of it still exist in SCCS and old backup tapes, but that code is effectively stubbed out due to parts that it refers to not being recovered as of yet.

3. The missing 4.1b BSD could be missing because it was full of SunOS code.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I never found a working copy of SunOS in BSD, here are my findings:</p>
<p>1. Sun Microsystems supposedly had a VAX-11/750. Monet was a VAX-11/750. Was Monet really Sun&#8217;s VAX?  A VAX-11/750 is sizeable chunk of change, especially one that you would only use for a short while to bootstrap SunOS on.</p>
<p>2. It&#8217;s clear from the residue that BSD had Sun code. Some breadcrumbs are that SCCS like RCS operates on individual files, unlike Concurrent Version System (CVS), Subversion (SVN), git and so on which can operate on groups of files.  This makes it possible to expunge files and directories.  If there was a hypothetical /sys/sundev directory on a VAX at UCB it would be possible to &#8220;rm -r&#8221; it along with the SCCS version control for all the files in that directory.  Code like &#8220;#if sun&#8221; and &#8220;#include &#8221; in files that contain code that cannot be expunged will still be visible in the SCCS and backup tapes, etc.  The `files.sun` file is probably due to an oversight causing it to not be removed along with other files until it was discovered later.  The sun code was removed by the time of 4.2BSD release. Some traces of it still exist in SCCS and old backup tapes, but that code is effectively stubbed out due to parts that it refers to not being recovered as of yet.</p>
<p>3. The missing 4.1b BSD could be missing because it was full of SunOS code.</p>
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